Recently read a book on the Nudge effect and it mentioned it taking upwards of 40 seconds for a human to re-establish control of an automated vehicle. Is not having to worry about traffic and your place in it when using “automated” driving part of the appeal? I guess not breaking the law isn’t quite decadent enough for Tesla owners.
As the parent commenter who actually drives the Tesla, this is absolute bullshit. It does not take me any 40 seconds to reestablish control. FSD is not push the button and take a nap. If it was, it might take me 40 seconds to wake up, take a sip of coffee, stretch and yawn, tilt my chair back up, and then look around the car. But that is not the case.
FSD requires driver attention to the road. Even if the computer is driving, I am still paying attention to what is going on and if anything maintaining a higher level of situational awareness because I can spread my attention around the car without having to focus on staying in the lane. If I want to take over I literally just do it, apply any control input and I’m back in control. Turn the wheel, hit the gas, hit the brake, the car responds immediately.
Driving on residential streets I will often go in and out of FSD frequently, the version I have is not as good with complex intersections and knowing when it is our turn for example. So I’ll let it drive along and stay in the lane, then when we get to the intersection I’ll take over, then when we get to the other side I’ll go back on FSD. There is no 40 second delay anywhere.
I would strongly encourage you to go test drive the car. I’m not saying buy one, I’m saying just so that you can understand what exactly the system does and does not do. Don’t take that knowledge from what you read online, much of it written by people with an agenda either pro-Tesla or anti-Tesla. Go experience it for yourself and decide for yourself based on first hand knowledge If it’s a dangerous piece of shit or a useful tool.
Maybe it has changed since the last time I tried on a rental (about a year ago), but it felt too gimmicky to be useful. It constantly wanted me to jerk the wheel, and would randomly turn itself off otherwise. Despite the fact I still had both my hands on the wheel, and the camera sensor should have noticed I was constantly looking at the road.
And then the few times it stayed active for a longer period, I was even more bored than usual with driving, and I didn’t feel much safer. Especially with country roads, it was constantly doing the speed limit instead of slightly slowing down in the few areas without fences (wildlife running into the road), and it was also happy to drive through a long and deep visible pool of water on the highway at like 110km/hr.
It’d be different if Tesla had LiDAR, but nah, it’s not for me. I’m glad you like it though.
Significantly changed. Even in the last few months. I would encourage you to go do a test drive. Night and day from the type of experience you have.
The driver monitoring now uses a camera. If you are looking at the road, it doesn’t ask you to jerk the wheel at all.
Speed control is much more organic and considers turns, hills, etc.
The machine vision on the cameras is different as well, it uses a processing technique called occupancy networks to produce 3D data out of the 2D camera images.
The one concern is you list speed in km, the current full self-driving software is not available in all countries and may not be available in yours, which might mean if you do a test drive you are still on the same very basic system you had before.
For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then moving at highway speeds? I don’t think 40 seconds is a stretch at all.
Also, the smug self-assurance of a Tesla owner does little more than reveal just why people feel the way they do about this kind of person. So certain in the technology and other Tesla owners that concerns over the bicycle rider or the pedestrian become little more than background noise.
For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then
There’s the disconnect.
You’re starting cold. Like, you just woke up from a nap, to find you’re on the highway and have to take over. Then maybe it takes 20-40 seconds.
That’s not the case for a Tesla driver. The driver is required (and it’s enforced by attention monitoring) to stay situationally engaged.
Serious question- have you ever actually USED FSD? In a five minute test drive, or ideally for a long car trip? I believe that you are speaking from a position of ignorance, IE you are speaking factually about something you aren’t familiar with the facts of.
The VERY FIRST TIME I drove a Tesla, I turned Autopilot (that’s what there was back then) on and off several times in the space of a drive. There was no 40 second anything.
What I find interesting is this is something that many people can actually validate themselves, but won’t. It’s one thing to talk about global politics and have a position and be undeterred from it with no real way to concretely get an answer on something, or maybe something that’s unobtainable to them, or would cost a lot of money to verify, but there are numerous L2 systems out there today that anyone can go test drive on the highway and find out for themselves, but many won’t even do that.
The only real excuse would be that you’re too young to test drive a vehicle. Other than that, you should be able to at least have an experienced personal opinion on their usage if you wanted to, like that other person who replied to you and said they didn’t like the older version.
The core issue, IMHO, is a mixture of lack of critical thinking and intellectual laziness, reinforced by algorithms and echo chambers. You see it in almost any contentious debate these days, including things like politics, but it’s pretty much everywhere.
Whatever my opinion is, various algorithms will figure that out and feed me a solid stream of crap that agrees with me because that’s what I will click on and engage with. Every time I see an article that reinforces my opinion it gives me a little hit of dopamine that I am right and so I conclude that I am right and everybody smart agrees with me because my position is obviously the right one.
Meanwhile the guy on the other side of the issue has the exact same experience and thus is convinced that he is right and everybody smart agrees with him.
Combine this with an educational system that is teaching the test rather than teaching to think, and the very simple thought process of ‘what if I’m wrong? What if I don’t have all the details?’ simply doesn’t occur in an awful lot of people.
Elon Musk is a perfect example. A few years ago, he was a genius eccentric billionaire working to make the planet a better place with green technology and electric cars. Then he joined up with Trump, and suddenly he is a fraudster using Daddy’s money to bully his way into companies and taking credit for their success. The rockets are bad, the cars are bad, the tunnels are bad, the brain chip is bad, and all these things always were bad from the beginning because it’s easier to retcon than to acknowledge your position changed because of politics.
The fact is, in this age of information there is really no good excuse for ignorance. The information is always out there, if you put even a little effort into finding it. Yes it requires waiting through a lot of crap and slop, But it’s out there. And as you say you can just head down to your local dealer and ask for a test drive, and then you have real empirical data to base an argument on. Not that anyone would do that, because to them, their opinion is just as valid as my first hand experience.
so ppl can get even more reliant on technology and would be downright dangerous behind the wheel of an older vehicle? awesome…
Recently read a book on the Nudge effect and it mentioned it taking upwards of 40 seconds for a human to re-establish control of an automated vehicle. Is not having to worry about traffic and your place in it when using “automated” driving part of the appeal? I guess not breaking the law isn’t quite decadent enough for Tesla owners.
As the parent commenter who actually drives the Tesla, this is absolute bullshit. It does not take me any 40 seconds to reestablish control. FSD is not push the button and take a nap. If it was, it might take me 40 seconds to wake up, take a sip of coffee, stretch and yawn, tilt my chair back up, and then look around the car. But that is not the case.
FSD requires driver attention to the road. Even if the computer is driving, I am still paying attention to what is going on and if anything maintaining a higher level of situational awareness because I can spread my attention around the car without having to focus on staying in the lane. If I want to take over I literally just do it, apply any control input and I’m back in control. Turn the wheel, hit the gas, hit the brake, the car responds immediately.
Driving on residential streets I will often go in and out of FSD frequently, the version I have is not as good with complex intersections and knowing when it is our turn for example. So I’ll let it drive along and stay in the lane, then when we get to the intersection I’ll take over, then when we get to the other side I’ll go back on FSD. There is no 40 second delay anywhere.
I would strongly encourage you to go test drive the car. I’m not saying buy one, I’m saying just so that you can understand what exactly the system does and does not do. Don’t take that knowledge from what you read online, much of it written by people with an agenda either pro-Tesla or anti-Tesla. Go experience it for yourself and decide for yourself based on first hand knowledge If it’s a dangerous piece of shit or a useful tool.
Maybe it has changed since the last time I tried on a rental (about a year ago), but it felt too gimmicky to be useful. It constantly wanted me to jerk the wheel, and would randomly turn itself off otherwise. Despite the fact I still had both my hands on the wheel, and the camera sensor should have noticed I was constantly looking at the road.
And then the few times it stayed active for a longer period, I was even more bored than usual with driving, and I didn’t feel much safer. Especially with country roads, it was constantly doing the speed limit instead of slightly slowing down in the few areas without fences (wildlife running into the road), and it was also happy to drive through a long and deep visible pool of water on the highway at like 110km/hr.
It’d be different if Tesla had LiDAR, but nah, it’s not for me. I’m glad you like it though.
Significantly changed. Even in the last few months. I would encourage you to go do a test drive. Night and day from the type of experience you have.
The driver monitoring now uses a camera. If you are looking at the road, it doesn’t ask you to jerk the wheel at all.
Speed control is much more organic and considers turns, hills, etc. The machine vision on the cameras is different as well, it uses a processing technique called occupancy networks to produce 3D data out of the 2D camera images.
The one concern is you list speed in km, the current full self-driving software is not available in all countries and may not be available in yours, which might mean if you do a test drive you are still on the same very basic system you had before.
For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then moving at highway speeds? I don’t think 40 seconds is a stretch at all.
Also, the smug self-assurance of a Tesla owner does little more than reveal just why people feel the way they do about this kind of person. So certain in the technology and other Tesla owners that concerns over the bicycle rider or the pedestrian become little more than background noise.
There’s the disconnect.
You’re starting cold. Like, you just woke up from a nap, to find you’re on the highway and have to take over. Then maybe it takes 20-40 seconds.
That’s not the case for a Tesla driver. The driver is required (and it’s enforced by attention monitoring) to stay situationally engaged.
Serious question- have you ever actually USED FSD? In a five minute test drive, or ideally for a long car trip? I believe that you are speaking from a position of ignorance, IE you are speaking factually about something you aren’t familiar with the facts of.
The VERY FIRST TIME I drove a Tesla, I turned Autopilot (that’s what there was back then) on and off several times in the space of a drive. There was no 40 second anything.
What I find interesting is this is something that many people can actually validate themselves, but won’t. It’s one thing to talk about global politics and have a position and be undeterred from it with no real way to concretely get an answer on something, or maybe something that’s unobtainable to them, or would cost a lot of money to verify, but there are numerous L2 systems out there today that anyone can go test drive on the highway and find out for themselves, but many won’t even do that.
The only real excuse would be that you’re too young to test drive a vehicle. Other than that, you should be able to at least have an experienced personal opinion on their usage if you wanted to, like that other person who replied to you and said they didn’t like the older version.
The core issue, IMHO, is a mixture of lack of critical thinking and intellectual laziness, reinforced by algorithms and echo chambers. You see it in almost any contentious debate these days, including things like politics, but it’s pretty much everywhere.
Whatever my opinion is, various algorithms will figure that out and feed me a solid stream of crap that agrees with me because that’s what I will click on and engage with. Every time I see an article that reinforces my opinion it gives me a little hit of dopamine that I am right and so I conclude that I am right and everybody smart agrees with me because my position is obviously the right one.
Meanwhile the guy on the other side of the issue has the exact same experience and thus is convinced that he is right and everybody smart agrees with him.
Combine this with an educational system that is teaching the test rather than teaching to think, and the very simple thought process of ‘what if I’m wrong? What if I don’t have all the details?’ simply doesn’t occur in an awful lot of people.
Elon Musk is a perfect example. A few years ago, he was a genius eccentric billionaire working to make the planet a better place with green technology and electric cars. Then he joined up with Trump, and suddenly he is a fraudster using Daddy’s money to bully his way into companies and taking credit for their success. The rockets are bad, the cars are bad, the tunnels are bad, the brain chip is bad, and all these things always were bad from the beginning because it’s easier to retcon than to acknowledge your position changed because of politics.
The fact is, in this age of information there is really no good excuse for ignorance. The information is always out there, if you put even a little effort into finding it. Yes it requires waiting through a lot of crap and slop, But it’s out there. And as you say you can just head down to your local dealer and ask for a test drive, and then you have real empirical data to base an argument on. Not that anyone would do that, because to them, their opinion is just as valid as my first hand experience.