Wait till I tell you about the Liberal Party in Australia… who are very much conservative.
Sorry if this is a bad question, but can some explain “liberals” to me? Being from the US,I understand it as the opposite of republicans. But I see the word get a tons of hate here and really just want to understand.
Liberalism is the ideology that says everyone should have equal rights, freedom of speech etc except “bad/troublesome actors”.
In practice, bad/troublesome actors can include anyone. This ideology was created in early USA and in britain. And its proponents, on one hand said “equal rights for all” but also had slaves. In britain, liberals supported the subjugation of india because india was “a bunch of barbaric savages who needed to be civilized”. Today immigrants or religious minorities are also excluded from these rights under the pretense of national security.
What we have today is neo-liberalism, that extends liberalism to include economic policies such as capitalism, and finance banking etc. (There’s probably more to it, but i am a bit rusty in my knowledge about this topic).
Honest question, what should I call myself then?
Liberals fundamentally believe in the capitalist system. They would just like to reform it, or regulate it just the right amount. Within the US political spectrum, liberals are cast as “left wing”. Here on Lemmy, many people will encounter (perhaps for the first time) political perspectives that disdain liberals as the moderate wing of fascism. To these perspectives, liberalism is so wedded to capitalism, that it will sooner capitulate to naked fascism than make common cause with any anticapitalist revolutionaries.
Wow. Thanks for helping explain, and whole Lee shit this is profound.
Big props on the concise-ness too.
Liberalism is the philosophy of capitalism. The people attacking liberals are either socialists who read literally any book in the last two centuries or confused conservatives.
The people who get angry about this are liberals who want to maintain the system of capitalism by buttressing it with welfare and technocratic tweaks as opposed to socialists who want to replace the system with one that serves the workers instead of capital.
Thank you for the explanation, also fucking love that username!
I believe it tends to mean Neo-liberal, which is basically the modern corporate-friendly Democrat party, as opposed to the descriptor for ‘not conservative’. So basically, there’s liberals, and there’s Liberals.
This makes much sense now that I’m thinking about it. To be very clear, fuck all neo liberals! Capitalism ain’t the way.
People here (just lemmy generally) tend to be completely irrational and anal about terms and just want to dunk on the establishment while having no actual plans to achieve their goals.
Basically, most people here (myself included) are progressives, in favour of many socialist elements in the short term and even more in the longer term, and there are some lunatics who somehow want soviet union style socialism (not realizing that that would obviously and inherently immediately lead to the type of corruption we saw there).
They are quite displeased with the democrats in the US who they view as (and I agree) center right neoliberals, which just basically means they’re mostly fine with things continuing as is, sans the most obvious horrific things.
They frequently fail to realize that because there is a 2 party system (as its winner takes all/first past the post) that the literal only way to get any progressive momentum is through continued strong support of said democrats (or whatever major party is closest to their views) whilst using primaries, local and state politics (or equivalents for other countries) to shift them towards being progressive, and so they love to make edgy memes about revolutions they will never carry out (because that’s easy, fun, and doesn’t require real work) rather than the boring, unfun, actionable plans that do work.
Just to be clear, of course my criticisms apply for the people being impractical, and not the practical progressives, protesting, still voting, etc etc.
This is more or less similar in any western nation with winner takes all/first past the post. These systems suck because they make change very difficult and severely shorten the levers people have on the political processes of their countries, but we live in the world we have, not the world we wish we had.
Not down voting you, in case it matters to ya, but largely disagree.
People here (just lemmy generally) tend to be completely irrational and anal about terms and just want to dunk on the establishment while having no actual plans to achieve their goals.
That’s what I have always found almost anywhere, and Lemmy is the first place online where I’ve run into the opposite - sincere, informed, motivated individuals who not only have a plan, but actively work towards it IRL. Sure, there’s plenty of do-nothing know-it-all types, I’ve almost certainly been one myself here more than once - but if you’re seeing that as the primary Lemmy thing, sounds like you just need to curate your Lemmy feed. Get away from the folks wanting to recreate Reddit, ya know? Pretty sure that’s where a lotta the “I know everything, but have done and will do nothing” personalities came from anyway.
That’s what I have always found almost anywhere
I don’t find this to be true. There are real activist groups that meet and have actual plans to support parties, policies etc with door to door campaigning and more. You have none of that on Lemmy. Just people making guillotine memes.
and Lemmy is the first place online where I’ve run into the opposite - sincere, informed, motivated individuals who not only have a plan, but actively work towards it IRL.
I have not seen a singular person who that description fits my entire time being on Lemmy.
but if you’re seeing that as the primary Lemmy thing, sounds like you just need to curate your Lemmy feed.
This seems really dismissive without any actionable examples.
Get away from the folks wanting to recreate Reddit, ya know? Pretty sure that’s where a lotta the “I know everything, but have done and will do nothing” personalities came from anyway.
I actually disagree tremendously, because something that has actually bothered me was seeing that reddit has more communities with people who actually plan protests, campaigns, user action, etc.
I imagine part of that is due to the much smaller lemmy user numbers, but I haven’t seen any actual events result from lemmy.
Interesting!
We really have very different experiences it seems. And honestly, I think that’s for the best! A big strength of federation-style tech.
Some responses:
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I intentionally stopped short of pointing you toward the parts of Lemmy I was talking about. I don’t know you - if you’re curious, you’ll find em; but I don’t know you and they aren’t “my” spaces, I’m not going to inflict you on them just to make a point, know what I mean?
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if you’re willing (feel free to tell me to fuck myself lol, given my statement above), where are you finding these “real activist groups”? I can’t say I’ve ever once seen the like online. To be fair, I tuned out of “social media” (the big platforms) more than 10 years ago and spent a considerable amount of that time jaded and uninvolved on that level.
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I really can’t understand any defence of modern Reddit whatsoever (assuming you’re defending modern Reddit, you didn’t indicate otherwise). For a long time now it’s been hilariously controlled, are you talking about subreddits that have managed to fly under the radar or something?
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completely agree that we got a whoooole lotta thoughtless meme’ing here. Pretty much comes with the territory though…
Oh, edit to add - I also haven’t seen IRL events organized on Lemmy, agree with you there. That’s not at all what I was saying, my bad - I meant that I run into folks who do IRL organizing, and happen to chime in about things online. The opposite of “online -> IRL” you’re describing.
Very cool of you with the measured response.
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Thank you for the explanation. Sorry it means you’re catching strays. But I do appreciate the well thought out response.
Thanks, and no worries. I’m used to that here. I just wish there was more sane and productive conversation about how to actually get the goals people who in theory agree with me politically accomplished.
Fuck this hits my soul. You got me shedding a literal tear.
It’s a weird wedge that is appearing in the US political scene. Certain segments of the scene are intent on never seeing a government left-of-Trump ever again, so they are accusing “liberals” of being just as bad as conservatives.
Sorry you’re catching strays too. But I will always vote against trumpettes, regardless of this site downvoting me for it!
Love the username, it sucks he turned out to be a trump supporter.
I liked Dilbert and the animated series myself. Considering the theme it’s truly a disappointment hearing about the creator. I like old ones for how I interpret them (back when I didn’t know his ideals) but when you know a creator’s ideals then it’s hard to enjoy them outside of that.
Like Dilbert was mostly anti corporate (or least their way of things) then the creator went hat in hands on knees to fucking Trump cause he needed help. Fuck that dude like offering Satan a blowjob. I haven’t watched recent South Park so if that’s a plot point I’d prefer not to read half of it.
It’s worse than him simply kissing the ring, much worse. Dude’s worldviews are gross, regardless of Trump. Behind the Bastards did a thorough dive, dunno if podcast format works well for ya, but there’s a lotta info there. But yeah, you’re not the only one who got whiplash from him being so right about corporate work life, yet wrong about…well, roughly everything else.
Yet another (sad) lesson I guess about art, specifically the evergreen, permanently mystifying, distinction between the art and the artist.
Yeah. I’m still sad he turned out how he is.
Especially the janitor at the Federal Bureau of Control.
That guy just wants a little cabin on the edge of complete existential void where he can chill from time to time. And probably a sauna.
I can tell you are not a yesterday’s grouse’s son
He reminded me of my Estonian grandma.
The janitor is a colleague, the CEO is a parasite.
The janitor adds value. The CEO does not.
The CEO adds garbage, the janitor reduces it.
At least the janitor keeps my workspace clean and enjoyable and picks up my trash.
Yeah. A world without janitors, or the janitorial task split up between everyone else constantly interrupting their day and requiring more of them, would suck.
You don’t pick up your own? Must be on the fast track to CEO, then…
Cleaning staff are union where I work. I’m technically not supposed to wipe up a drink from my desk if I spill it.
Depending on situation of course, I explicitly do not remove work that any individual is paid to do.
Had to really unfuck my brain to get there, because it simply feels kind to make someone’s work day easier.
I’m not saying make it harder. BUT - any justification we produce, accidentally or otherwise, for eliminating jobs, harms us and helps the parasitic owner class.
I say don’t clean up after yourself too well, as odd as it sounds - help the owners understand the need for janitors.
Even the most considerate person will mindlessly make a bit of a mess. that’s why we need janitors who’s labour is necessary and dignified.
Oh, absolutely agreed. I was making an apparently poorly worded joke, not intending to attack the commenter. Apologies for the confusion.
you absolutely made a mess, good thing there are janitors when needed.
Many offices only have trash cans at each desk and no option to clean to out in a dumpster, leaving trash to gathered up by a janitor. Doesn’t mean the op is lazy or entitled .
I was just being a wiseass, not really meaning to offend. Sorry if I did.
Nah you good lol
Thank you for making the comment my autism needed.
I make extra mess so one day they can be extra proud they were given an opportunity to cleaned up after me, future CEO.
I feel so much better about my job now.
There’s a Douglas Adams subplot about a civilisation run by “executives” who determined janitors as useless. they got rid of them only to quickly die from diseases.
rule of thumb, if a job has to be done it is as dignified as every other job. it is BS propaganda that some jobs deserve to live in abject poverty without any respect.
not just any janitors, telephone sanitation specialists
They sent them all to crash land into earth, iirc, saying theyd be ‘right behind them.’ There are supposedly 3 ships: one with all the elites, executives, politicians, and another one with all the actual laborers. The middle ship (the one we actually see, and presumably rhe only one actually built) is full of middle managers, insurance salesmen, HR, and PR people, and telephone sanitizers. People labeled as a ‘bunch of useless idiots’ the rest of their society is then wiped out by a disease spread telephone handsets.
The ship crashes into earth, and the inhabitants become our progenitors.
thanks, read it a long time ago and only remembers the key points ish
Your job count!
(Thank you for making our places tidy)
My friend, you provide a valued and necessary service. Not only do you prevent pests (and therefore disease) from ever being a problem, but you maintain the morale of every person who uses the space you clean. You generate motivation but eliminating the negative debuff of a nasty environment. YOU make a difference
I have Gabe Newell worshipers in my literal ass hounding me he got his billions “legitimately.”
He is greedy as fuck.
Covert rightists.
Something about that mindset caused them to create bullshit self-applied labels. Probably that cognitive dissonance trying to find calm.
Imagine looking at the Wolfire case and thinking that Wolfire was telling the truth despite literally all proof showing otherwise.
You weirdos just make up whatever you want to support your hatred, don’t you?
Did you look at the Elliott v. Valve Corporation (2:24-cv-01218) one too?
Funny meme, but situation is sad.
Why do you guys use liberal as an insult? It makes you sound like Trump supporters.
Because that’s a self-applied label of the group we’re talking about? What else would you prefer? I’ll call them whatever they want.
This nitpicking is just a hair away from saying “you’re not allowed to criticize liberals or else you get to be dismissed as Trump supporters.”
Weird that these “lefty” memes never denigrate the right.
that’s what we’re doing when we make fun of liberals. in every other country on earth, you would be appropriately called conservatives and labeled a right-wing party. you were never leftists.
Literally talking about guillotining billionaires in the meme
the right.
WTF did you think liberals are?
How strange indeed that lefties who have been demonized and attacked by a group of people who demand loyalty without an ounce of reciprocation might want a space to vent about that bullying group.
Not really a need to denigrate the right here, we can and do that alongside centrists.
we can and do that alongside centrists.
Liberalism has never been “centrist” - it’s about as right-wing as it gets. The only real difference between liberals and fascists is that fascists don’t lie to themselves and everybody alse about it.
I agree. I’m just living what I’m preaching, they can call themselves the Enlightened for all I care, I’ll use their terms and lobby criticism at them regardless.
Fuck liberals. And fuck liberalism, too.
Because liberal policy in centered on capital/economic interest, not socialism.
Everyone is looking to cut off the head of the snake…until you are the snake. If it ain’t venomous or threatening, I say, perhaps then let it go touch grass?
What’s your favorite boot flavor?
Well, it has to be this one by far. https://tenor.com/view/das-boot-beer-gif-11413185
In all seriousness, I am looking forward to seeing what Mamdani can do for NYC. I am fully on board with the concept that we need more diversity of opinions in our politics.
I want him to demolish his deathcamps first thing in the morning.
The ideal CEO-to-worker pay ratio is, depending on the source, around 25-1. Somewhere above 40 or 50, it’s seen as toxic. Current ratio is now often 200-1, so definitely in the venomous region.
Salaries should reflect the value contributed to society.
Therefore CEOs shouldn’t earn one, they should pay billions in damages for every second they spend “working”.
